Episode #0 of the new podcast, Structures of Interaction, in which Steph, Lindsey and Fugu talk about racial and cultural preconceptions getting in the way of efforts at social change.
Lindsey: It was pretty funny in her email-
Steph: What was it? “Please select.”
Lindsey: Yeah it was …
Fugu: It was-
Steph: It was well done originally.
Lindsey: “Please select.”
Steph: “Please select.”
Lindsey: “Which avocado?” I know, I’m like-
Steph: What was the other option? The other option was outrage or-
Lindsey: Not outrage, society– [crosstalk 00:00:24]
Steph: Or like, proactivity instead of reactivity.
Lindsey: Proactivity is too neutral. Because, in fact, you can be proactive in an asshole, kind of, outrageous way.
Steph: Right. Which is why-
Lindsey: So, it’s actually saying, to be in the world in a way that does not generate outrage.
Steph: Yes. And when you have the impulse in yourself to outrage-
Lindsey: That you work-
Steph: That you have some skills to go, “Whoa. This is something happening through me and, maybe it’s me, but maybe it’s not exactly me, and there’s some room-”
Fugu: But it’s- also, there’s also kind of a narcissism, right? The fact is, the minute people have outrage, they realize that, “Here is a way that I can get some attention.” Because the minute I put my outrage out there, “I said this first,” becomes a huge thing, right? “So-and-so says, or, so-and-so pointed out.” And you’re like “So, this is all about you getting a little moment” as you said, like this lady having a moment? It’s the same thing, everybody’s seeking that little moment, it’s got no, like, deep investment in the topic, or what is change, or any of it. And, I’m like “this is what we’ve created,” everybody’s hungry for their little piece.
Lindsey: Ironically, I don’t know why I have to go here, but I have to go here. Ironically, the very thing you described, like, if you have this drive to, like, burst out, to like, go and do that work.
Lindsey: That’s, like, how I was trained.
Lindsey: Inside of whiteness, and as being a woman inside of whiteness. Which is critiqued now, from, there’s a negative critique of that very dynamic.
Lindsey: So, part of the challenge, I’m just gonna say, for me personally, but I think it expands to, like, people who’re formed in a certain way. Um, and of a certain color, like, it’s, to figure out how to do that and not have it be re-investing in the, um, silencing culture.
Lindsey: Because, there’s a way in which you can do that that’s silencing versus that’s, um, like, you know, whatever, real.
Fugu: Good points.
Steph: Good points.
Lindsey: Outrage [crosstalk 00:02:36] point.
Fugu: Please select.
Steph: Please select.
Fugu: Which avocado?
Steph: Please select.
Fugu: [inaudible 00:02:45]
Steph: You said the larger one.
Fugu: I mean, it’s rather, like, self-explanatory.